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1991-12-04
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What does it take to convert System/36 applications to AS/400? Some members
who have converted applications share their experience. This short thread
emphasizes the need to understand AS/400 architecture clearly and not treat
it as a System/36.
Guy Scharf, Sysop
Computer Consultant's Forum
#: 191027 S5/Technical-Big Sys
28-Aug-89 09:37:04
Sb: #S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Bill Golden 76067,2203
To: ALL
Has anyone completed a System 36 to AS/400 conversion? (Or, do you know of
anyone who has?) Is anyone planning to do such a conversion? We would like
to discuss this with you!! Please leave email so we can contact you! Thanks.
...Bill Golden
#: 191047 S5/Technical-Big Sys
28-Aug-89 12:50:18
Sb: #191027-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Barry Schrager 71370,2466
To: Bill Golden 76067,2203
David Thomson has done a number of S36-->AS/400 conversions. However, David
is not easily reachable so you should contact his partner, Jim Tammey
312-382-6997. Tell Jim that I suggested you call.
Barry Schrager 71370,2466
#: 191085 S5/Technical-Big Sys
28-Aug-89 17:53:38
Sb: #191027-#S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Denny Friedman 76176,30
To: Bill Golden 76067,2203
I have and the client went for s/36 mode of the AS/400. Yuck! Slow! And it
was RPG to RPG. I would suggest that you take your IBM SE and Marketing rep,
tie them up in a chair by the AS/400, because you will need the SE and you
will want to swear at the marketing rep. Then have the makreting rep dial
customer support center in Rochester, Minnesota and then talk to those folks
for awhile. But after awhile, the conversion gets done, the system runs 36
applications weird. But remember the AS/400 is just another name for a 38
running S/36 emulation
#: 191102 S5/Technical-Big Sys
28-Aug-89 19:06:23
Sb: #191085-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Ed Girou 76702,542
To: Denny Friedman 76176,30
Denny,
It doesn't have to be yucky slow...there are a lot of factors involved.
Proper machine sizing, proper machine configuration, splitting of current S/36
job mix into interactive and batch memory pools, careful review of record
locking, eliminate MRTs, and willingness to rewrite the top 10 most frequently
used programs will yield significantly different results.
Swearing at IBM representatives and placing telephone calls to Rochester are
less effective than applying that energy to the above mentioned tasks.
Maybe I should have put this as #1 on the list: Education--learn how the box
works, wants to work, and how you should use it.
It just takes time.
Ed
#: 191414 S5/Technical-Big Sys
29-Aug-89 22:25:19
Sb: #191102-#S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Denny Friedman 76176,30
To: Ed Girou 76702,542 (X)
I worked for IBM at the Rochester, MN plant and was on the development of the
34, 36, and 38 machines and was on the design of the AS/400 also called Fort
Knox project in 1984. As a consultant, I am amazed at the implementation of
the machine. My clients had a 36 machine and to rewrite the top ten
applications with over 400 programs would have meant paying for two machines
because I would have had to have the customer run parallel operations. They
had daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and yearly applications at both local
and remote sites. I had the IBM rep use his electronic sizing programs with
accurate record sizes and number of transactions. The jobs and job streams
were put into interactive and batch jobs and eliminating MRTS were not
possible, because of a huge inventory database that had to be accessible to
over 120 operators for inquiry and update operations and available 24 hours a
day. I was amazed at the machine and so was my customer and it makes me look
bad, when I as a former IBMer do a conversion for a client and the machine
runs slower than the previous machine, and I have to blame the machine for I
know both the S/38 and S/36 thoroughly and what the AS/400 was supposed to do.
And then backup of files onto tape.<I thought they fixed that with the
S/36>..................
#: 191421 S5/Technical-Big Sys
30-Aug-89 00:41:37
Sb: #191414-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Ed Girou 76702,542
To: Denny Friedman 76176,30
Denny,
Maybe my comments weren't very clear....
You should recode the top 10 PROGRAMS not _applications_. And with careful
planning of your library lists your client could have both versions active on
the SAME machine and parallel testing with ONE machine. The 2-3 days spent
recoding would make a vast change in the system's responsiveness.
Accurate record sizes and number of transactions have very little impact on
performance from a programming viewpoint. They are 'helpful' in sizing a
machine, but we only use them to determine how much disk a customer should be
purchasing.
MRTS are a definite killer. Converting a S/36 mrt to a S/36EE non-mrt is a
piece of cake..maybe 30 minutes of your time. Making a database available 24
hours a day isn't relevant to the use of a MRT on the AS/400. Ditto for the
number of records in the database and the number of users accessing the
database. The code I write works just as fast for a single user in a 10
record file as 304 users accessing a 15-million record file (very fast!).
Gosh, the system was designed for applications like this...maybe the S/36 code
and your firm conviction to just lift it from one box to another are the
problems. We have many happy AS/400 clients.
Have you studied any of the ITSC red books? It appears the investment would
be worthwhile for you. Ed
#: 191197 S5/Technical-Big Sys
29-Aug-89 04:30:51
Sb: #191085-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Bill Golden 76067,2203
To: Denny Friedman 76176,30 (X)
Denny, Sounds like this has something to do with IBM <grin>. Thanks!
.bg
#: 191198 S5/Technical-Big Sys
29-Aug-89 04:31:40
Sb: #191027-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: will cardwell 71560,1006
To: Bill Golden 76067,2203
I am getting ready to start a conversion. The applications consist of over
600 RPG programs. I plan to bring up S/36 environment first and then convert
certain key programs to native. I'll convert the rest to native later when I
have time. I think the worst thing anybody can do with the AS/400 is not to
learn the machine properly. If you convert to S/36 environment, don't
continue to write new code using S/36 techniques. Learn how the AS/400 works
natively. I have some S/38 experience which helps tremendously. Most of the
horror stories I hear about the AS/400 concerning performance are caused by
software that was designed for a S/36. The AS/400 is not a System/36.
I find that there are a lot of programmers out there that have enough trouble
staying above water on the S/36. When they get on a 400, they are really
going to be in trouble. You have to know your stuff!
#: 191451 S5/Technical-Big Sys
30-Aug-89 06:21:10
Sb: #191198-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Bill Golden 76067,2203
To: will cardwell 71560,1006
Will,
May we contact you if we have "quick" questions? Please E-Mail your
number if that's OK. Thanks! ....bg
#: 191684 S5/Technical-Big Sys
31-Aug-89 04:32:15
Sb: #191451-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: will cardwell 71560,1006
To: Bill Golden 76067,2203
You can post your questions here. That way anyone can answer it and try to
help you out.
#: 191922 S5/Technical-Big Sys
31-Aug-89 21:51:30
Sb: #191198-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Frederik M. Fowler 70776,1307
To: will cardwell 71560,1006
Hi. I just wanted to say the I am in the business of teaching S/36 people how
to use 'native' AS/400 tools for just these reasons. My clients say it makes
a world of difference to their installations.
--Fred
#: 191970 S5/Technical-Big Sys
01-Sep-89 04:23:20
Sb: #191922-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: will cardwell 71560,1006
To: Frederik M. Fowler 70776,1307
It has always been my opinion that the AS/400 is no easier to learn than the
System/38. The S/38 was introduced before the S/34 and S/36. Many people
chose the S/36 instead of the S/38 because of its simplicity. They figured it
would take a larger staff with more expertise to run a S/38. I don't see how
this has changed with the AS/400. As a matter of fact, anybody that learned
the S/34-36 architecture instead of the S/38 has just wasted a lot of time.
If they had chosen the S/38 instead, they would be that much further ahead.
Like I said before: There are a lot of mediocre S/36 programmers out there
that can barely cut it on that machine. Put them on an AS/400 and they'll
really botch things up.
#: 192491 S5/Technical-Big Sys
04-Sep-89 23:07:11
Sb: #191970-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Frederik M. Fowler 70776,1307
To: will cardwell 71560,1006
I agree that the AS/400 is no easier to learn than the System 38. The
AS/400's 'Native' mode seems to be CPF with a few nice additions, so System 38
people have little trouble making the transition.
As far as mediocrity is concerned, the S/34--S/36 world doen NOT have a
monopoly on bad programmers. I have seen real DIMWITS get System 38 jobs, and
have spent much of my career cleaning up their messes. There are lots of
SHARP people working on System 36s who have never had the chance to move to
the 38 because they lack 'relevant
experience'. You imply that working on 38s versus 36s is a matter of CHOICE,
whereas in my experience it is a matter of LUCK.
The AS/400 clearly indicates that IBM wants the System 38's philosophy to be
the future architecture of their midrange systems. This means that ALL system
36 shops are going to convert to the new way of doing things before long.
This will give many more programmers the chance to learn the architecture and
will increase programmer quality through competition.
I hope that LOTS of people learn to work with the AS/400, so that the
incompetent programmers in this part of the industry are SQUEEZED OUT. I'm
trying to help this process along by offering training to System 36 and other
people who understand Data Processing but do not know the specific attributes
of the AS/400.
--Fred
#: 191295 S5/Technical-Big Sys
29-Aug-89 15:24:08
Sb: #191027-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Chuck Lundgren 73317,2235
To: Bill Golden 76067,2203
Bill - The March 89 issue of NEWS 3X/400 has several articles on 36->400
migration. Also, Newslink (the BBS run by NEWS 3X/400) has several people who
could answer any questions you have on migration.
(Disclosure: I write for NEWS 3X/400, and I don't profit from Newslink).
... Chuck
#: 191452 S5/Technical-Big Sys
30-Aug-89 06:21:22
Sb: #191295-S/36 to AS400 conversion
Fm: Bill Golden 76067,2203
To: Chuck Lundgren 73317,2235
Chuck,
Looks like we need to track down a particular magazine! Thanks for the
info! ....bg